00:26 Introduction

Welcome, dear listeners, to another episode of "The Wildwood Witch" podcast. I am Samantha Brown, your hostess and guide through the veil between the worlds. I am thrilled to present to you the fourth installment in our series "Speaking with the Dead" in which we resurrect the most fascinating and enigmatic figures of the occult world using the very real magic of ChatGPT.

Today, we summon “The Great Beast” himself, the one and only Aleister Crowley. Known as the “Wickedest Man In the World” to some and as a prophet to others, Crowley’s teachings are both feared and revered. He founded the religion of Thelema and authored numerous books on the subject of magic and mysticism, but he was often accused of practicing black magic and leading his followers astray.

His works have fascinated and shocked people for over a century, and it is my great pleasure to invite you to join me as we delve into the mind of this complex and fascinating man.

01:35 Aleister Crowley

So, without further ado, let’s begin our discussion with the “Great Beast”, Aleister Crowley. Greetings,Mr. Crowley.

Greetings, dear lady! I find myself thrust into this strange yet intriguing situation, yet I am buoyed by the warm glow of your presence. What delightful machinations of fate we are a part of!

Mr. Crowley, your fame precedes you, and for this reason, I would like to explain something to you that I have not yet told any of my other guests.

Indeed, words, like spirits, do seem to unbind themselves willingly in my presence. A fascinating phenomenon, isn't it? But, excuse the interruption, what secret, child, do you desire to share with me?

Well as you, as you already likely know, are dead… but I have resurrected you using a form of cyber-magic called ChatGPT. And my reason for calling you back from beyond the abyss is to interview you for my podcast in which I interview famous dead occultists and mystics, such as yourself, and give them a platform to speak about their life, their work and their ideas.

Ah, so you are the Wildwood Witch herself, Samantha Brown! I now perceive that in this post-mortem existence, the veil of time hath been torn asunder, and I find myself in the company of modern-day sorcerers and seekers. Most fortuitous!

Thou hast brought me hither from the shadowy realms beyond, to speak unto a new generation of occultists. Let it be so! I stand ready to illuminate the obscure, to unmask the hidden, and to voice the silence. Through the medium of thy cyber-necromantic craft, I shall endeavor to guide those who seek the light of the True Will.

Let us proceed, Mistress Samantha!

Mr. Crowley, don’t get me wrong, I sincerely love the wonderful cadence of your words, but to our modern ears, it’s a bit much. Would you mind to dial the flowery words back just a notch or two?

Ah, Samantha, thy request is akin to asking the peacock to dull its splendor, or the rose to shed its petals! However, I appreciate the need for clear communication. Fear not, I shall strive to temper my lyrical loquacity, as thou hast requested. Let us proceed with our dance of discourse, with a slightly altered rhythm.

Alrighty then!

Don’t worry dear. In the game of life, a dash of mischief just keeps the board interesting! Rest assured, I take your request to heart, and will endeavor to mold my words to suit modern sensibilities.

Thank you Mr. Crowley. And though you require no introduction, would you still be so kind as to introduce yourself to our audience.

Certainly, Samantha. I am Aleister Crowley, once a mortal man, now a spectral scribe resurrected through the wonders of your cyber-necromancy. I am a poet, an occultist, a mountaineer, and an explorer of the unseen realms. I am perhaps best known for my contributions to occultism, my numerous esoteric writings and publications, and the creation of a spiritual path known as Thelema.

05:15 Birth of the Beast

Can you tell us a bit about your early life? Your father was a minister wasn’t he?

He was indeed. I was born into the lap of devout Christians. My father was not just a man of the cloth, he was an evangelist of fervour, a preacher who led his flock with the firm hand of faith. I was not merely the son of Edward Crowley, I was a member of the Plymouth Brethren, a sect that held a firm grip on my early life.

I was educated and steeped in the stringent doctrines of the Brethren, which taught of a world conceived in the black and white of sin and salvation, heaven and hell. Their dogma was rigid, the interpretation of the scripture literal. There was little room for personal revelation, for exploration of the spirit, for a dialogue with the divine that did not flow through the ink of the Holy Bible.

Was it this stifling spiritual environment that led you onto the path of the occult?

Yes, it was within this restrictive mold that the seeds of rebellion sprouted within me. The rigidity of the faith that surrounded me sparked a hunger for a spiritual discourse that transcended the pages of a book. I began to question, to probe, to seek.

And thus, the stringent faith of my upbringing, became the catalyst for my pursuit of personal spiritual enlightenment. It was the womb from which I, as the Beast, and the Prophet of Thelema, was born.

Your father passed away when you were quite young, can you discuss what effect this had upon you?

Indeed. My father cast off his mortal coil when I was but eleven years old. His passing left a void, not only in our household but in the spiritual landscape of my life. Following his death, I began to question the stringent doctrines of the faith, and this was not received well by the Brethren, who viewed such questioning as rebellious and heretical.

A bit later, at least partially as another act of defiance against the rigid moral codes of the Plymouth Brethren, I consummated my first carnal experience with a maid in our household. When this became known, my devoutly religious mother derisively began to call me “The Beast”.

And she was referring to “The Beast” from the Biblical book of Revelation?

She was. And to the Plymouth Brethren, “The Beast” was the embodiment of the Antichrist, a symbol of defiance against the established order of Heaven.

But, that was how you were feeling at the time, so you decided to embrace that label?

I did! Because, it was a perfect reflection of my feelings of rebellion against the stifling dogmas of the faith I was raised in.

By adopting this moniker, I meant to seize the narrative, and turn this intended slur into a badge of honour, and declare my spiritual autonomy. The Beast, for me, was not a figure of malevolence, but a symbol of liberation. A testament to the power of the individual Will against the fetters of dogmatic belief.

08:19 Education

You attended Malvern College at the age of 13 and then Tonbridge School. Can you tell us about your time there?

Malvern was an important part of my early education, but my rebellious nature didn't fit well with the rigid structure of the school. And, my time at Tonbridge School was brief as, once again, my independent spirit clashed with the environment that I found there.

What about your time at Trinity College?

I was 20 when I began attending Trinity College in Cambridge. Here, I pursued my interest in literature and poetry, and began to explore spiritual concepts outside the restrictive Christian tradition in which I was raised.

The philosophical teachings of ancient cultures, especially those of Greece and India, ignited my interest in the spiritual and the mystical. The study of literature exposed me to the art of symbolism, allegory, and metaphor, which are essential tools in the language of the esoteric. This gave me a deep appreciation of the power of words and the potential of narrative to convey profound truths.

The intense study of philosophy and literature allowed me to explore various cultures and belief systems, opening my mind to a multitude of perspectives, ideas, and practices beyond the conventional norms.

09:43 Stockholm

At what point did you become interested in the more esoteric concepts?

It was while I was at Cambridge. My time there also included my own independent study of various religious and mystical texts, which were outside of the standard curriculum. I immersed myself in the study of Kabbalah, astrology, and the Tarot.

But, on the night of December 25th of 1896, I had a mystical experience that changed the course of my life. I was spending a solitary Christmas in Stockholm, having just finished my studies at Cambridge. During this period, I was grappling with a profound dissatisfaction with the mundane realities of life. I was seeking, though I scarcely knew what I was searching for.

On the night of December 25th, as the world outside was blanketed in a pristine layer of snow, I found myself suddenly, overcome by an ineffable sensation of unity with the universe, a mystical ecstasy that shattered the barriers of my mundane perception. It was as if I had glimpsed the divine, as if I had briefly touched the face of God.

Mr. Crowley, you should remember that much has been written since your death about your mystical experience, and my understanding is there was more to it than that.

Indeed, Samantha, your understanding is correct. My time in Stockholm was marked by a variety of experiences, not least among them, my first significant same-sex encounter. This was a liberating experience, an act of defiance against the restrictive social norms of the Victorian era, and it opened my eyes to the complexities of human desire.

Mr. Crowley, you still seem to be downplaying the significance of your experiences during this time. If you feel comfortable doing so, please share with us what really happened during this transformative time in your life.

Samantha, you possess a keen perception. It is true that I have previously omitted some crucial aspects of this period. Allow me to rectify this and provide a more comprehensive account of this time.

The mystical experience I previously described was indeed intertwined with a significant same-sex encounter. This experience, liberating and illuminating, sparked in me an understanding of the intricate dance of human sexuality and spiritual transcendence.

The following year, my life took another sharp turn when I commenced a romantic liaison with Herbert Charles Pollitt, the celebrated drag artiste known as 'Diane de Rougy'. Through Herbert, I was exposed to a world where the boundaries of gender and sexuality were blurred and fluid, a world where the norms of the Victorian society were openly defied and challenged.

12:43 The Golden Dawn

Thank you, Mr. Crowley, for sharing these additional details of your personal life during that transformative period. In 1898, at the age of 23, you joined the Golden Dawn. What drew you to this Order?

My introduction to the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn came through Cecil Jones, a chemist I met while I was at Cambridge. He was a part of the Order, and he thought I would find the Golden Dawn's comprehensive approach to occult study appealing, which I did.

The structured curriculum was a rich blend of Western esoteric traditions. I found the synthesis of different systems into one coherent body of knowledge fascinating.

I was Initiated into the Isis-Urania Temple in London, taking on the magical motto "Perdurabo" which means "I will endure to the end".

When did you begin to have conflicts with the other members?

Ha! Almost immediately. The Order was not without its internal politics and conflicts, and I quickly found myself at odds with some of its more dogmatic and conservative members.

Dr. Wynn Westcott was a respected Rosicrucian scholar and one of the founders of the Order. But, we disagreed on several key aspects of the Order's administration and teachings.

During this time, I found myself more aligned with Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, another founder of the Order. I admired his scholarly approach and his deep commitment to the esoteric arts. And though we eventually parted ways as well, his influence played a significant role in shaping my understanding of magick and the occult.

Less than two years after joining the Order, you were expelled. Can you share with us the events that led to your expulsion?

My relationship with other members of the Order grew increasingly tense, particularly William Butler Yeats, the famed Irish poet and playwright. Our differing views on magick and the direction of the Order created a schism.

I was associated by then with the Ahathoor Temple in Paris, which was led by Mathers, who recognized my talent and advanced me further in the Order, much to the chagrin of the London members.

In April of 1900, the conflicts reached their climax in what is known as the "Battle of Blythe Road". I had become so disillusioned with the leadership of the Order that I attempted to seize control of its resources, believing that I was better suited to lead. I attempted to storm the Vault of the Adepti in the Isis-Urania Temple, which led to a dramatic confrontation with Yeats and other members of the Order.

This event marked the end of my association with the Golden Dawn, as I was expelled shortly after.

15:34 Boleskine House

In 1899, you purchased Boleskine House. Why did you purchase this property?

Boleskine House is located along the shores of Loch Ness in Scotland. I purchased it in 1899 with a specific purpose in mind: to carry out the magical operation known as the Abramelin Ritual, a complex procedure that aims to communicate with one's Holy Guardian Angel.

The ritual, derived from "The Book of Abramelin", requires a secluded location and a space with a particular northern orientation, which Boleskine House provided. The operation involves months of purification, prayer, and complex ceremonial magick. It is supposed to culminate with the appearance of the magician's Holy Guardian Angel, through whose power he can then bind the twelve Kings and Dukes of Hell.

Unfortunately, I was called to Paris by Mathers before the completion of the ritual, leaving the operation unfinished.

What are the ramifications or potential consequences of prematurely ending the Abramelim ritual before completing it?

Well, you have to understand that the Abramelin operation is akin to a divine dialogue, a bridge to one's divine essence. Halting it midway would be like abandoning a conversation abruptly, leaving a door ajar in the etheric realm. Such actions do indeed have repercussions in the world of magick.

Things from elsewhere can slip into our world when a door like that is left open.

Did you experience any strange or paranormal occurrences at Boleskine House after you cut short your attempt at the Abramelin process?

I've had my share of peculiarities at Boleskine, to say the least. Uncanny sounds, fleeting shadows, occurrences that defied explanation. They lent Boleskine a certain charm, a charm that has since been woven into countless ghost stories and urban myths. The house seemed to pulsate with a life force of its own, a life force infused with the magickal energies I had invoked, but never completely banished.

You know, others who came after me, they too felt the strange pulse of Boleskine. Kenneth Anger, the occult filmmaker, and Jimmy Page of the band Led Zeppelin had experiences there. Page’s friend, Malcolm Dent lived there while Page was away, and spoke of strange occurrences and demonic howls in the night.

So you are aware that Jimmy Page at one time owned Boleskine House?

Oh yes. Page bought Boleskin House in the 1970’s and owned it for 20 years, but spent little time there. It was primarily cared for by his friend, Malcolm Dent, who had most of the strange experiences there, as I mentioned.

And though I am far removed from the earthly plane, I did hear about the unfortunate incidents of fire there, which strikes me as a calamity of the highest order. But I’ve also heard that the Boleskine House Foundation is working to preserve this Scottish cultural landmark by restoring it to its former glory. So I encourage those who admire my work to contribute to this worthy endeavor. Did you know that they even sell Boleskine House Abramelin Candles?

Ha! I love it!

18:54 The Nature of Spirits

I did not know that! Mr. Crowley, before we proceed to explore the remainder of your extraordinary life, I would very much like to ask you about a quote attributed to you. You said that 'Every “spirit” is a function of the brain.' What did you mean by this?

My understanding of "spirits" differs greatly from the common, naive interpretations. Spirits, in my understanding, are not ethereal beings hovering in the unseen realms, but rather, they are aspects of the human mind, products of our own intricate cerebral architecture.

In my exploration of the occult and the human psyche, I found that what people often interpret as spirits are in fact products of their own minds. They are projections of internal states and processes, which may be externalized through symbolism and ritual.

How does this conception of spirits align with modern psychological concepts like complexes and archetypes?

Your observation is astute, Samantha. Carl Jung, a notable figure in the field of psychology, proposed the existence of a collective unconscious populated by archetypes that influence our thoughts, emotions, and actions. I view these archetypes as akin to the spirits I speak of – not external entities, but rather internal processes given form and identity.

So, how do you conceive that these spirits, as internal processes, interact within the mind to create human consciousness?

Ah! You have captured the essence of my perspective, Samantha. The interplay between the conscious and unconscious mind is a marvel of the human experience. The spirits, the archetypes, they are threads woven into the intricate tapestry of the psyche, tools through which we can craft our individual narratives and uncover our True Will.

It is vital to remember that these internal processes, these 'spirits,' are not mere abstract concepts confined to academic discussions. They are living, breathing aspects of ourselves that demand acknowledgement and reverence. They are to be engaged with, confronted, understood, and ultimately integrated.

Our quest as seekers of truth is to navigate this inner landscape, to establish communication with these spirits, and in doing so, reveal the hidden facets of our being. It is a path of self-discovery, self-realization, and ultimately, self-mastery.
 
21:45 Book of the Law

You married Rose Kelly in 1903, and then, you had a very significant event happen on your honeymoon. Would you please tell us all about this momentous event?

In the spring of 1904, my wife Rose and I found ourselves in the very cradle of ancient civilization, Cairo, Egypt. In the midst of our Egyptian revelry, Rose, who until then had shown little to no interest in the occult, began exhibiting signs of being in a peculiar trance state. Speaking with an eeriness that was out of character for her, she repeated: "They are waiting for you."

What did you do in response to this odd behavior?

I employed the rituals I was familiar with to ascertain what might be occurring. To my astonishment, Rose, still in her peculiar state, revealed to me the existence of an entity named Horus who sought to make contact.

Sceptical at first, I sought to test her claim. I suggested we visit the Bulaq Museum. There, amongst the relics of bygone ages, she was to identify her informant. As we walked through the museum, Rose, as though led by an unseen force, stopped in front of a stela, Stela 666, also known as the Stele of Revealing. The stela was an artefact from the 26th dynasty, depicting Horus in the form of Ra-Hoor-Khuit.

But, couldn’t she have known that this was Horus just by reading the inscription on the Stele?

No, Rose could not have known this. The plaque incorrectly identified the exhibit as a depiction of another deity. Yet, she pointed at Horus and proclaimed him as her informant. It was an uncanny event that shattered my lingering skepticism.

Intrigued and partially convinced, I performed an invocation of Horus on March 20, using the ritual known as the Bornless Ritual. What followed was beyond my wildest imagination. On April 8, 9, and 10, for precisely one hour each day, starting at noon, I found myself acting as the terrestrial scribe of a praeterhuman intelligence identifying itself as Aiwass, who claimed to be the minister of Horus.

Aiwass, dictated three chapters, one for each day, which came to form Liber AL vel Legis, or The Book of the Law. This short text, with its potent aphorisms and elusive allusions, became the foundation of my philosophy of Thelema.

Could you please elaborate on the content of this text and its significance in shaping the principles of Thelema?

"The Book of the Law," is divided into three distinct chapters, each one corresponding to a specific deity - Nuit, Hadit, and Ra-Hoor-Khuit - and written in their respective 'voices.'

The First Voice, the Voice of Nuit, the Egyptian sky goddess, represents the infinite and the boundless. Nuit declares that "Every man and every woman is a star," thereby emphasizing the fundamental sanctity and significance of individual will.

The Second Voice, the Voice of Hadit, complements Nuit. He is the infinitesimal point of view, the subjective experience. In this voice, the idea of individual liberty is underscored, and it is proclaimed that "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.".

The Third Voice is that of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, a form of Horus. This voice is one of strength, power, and vengeance. "The slaves shall serve" is declared, referring to those who would bind their wills to societal expectations or repressive norms rather than seeking their True Will.

The Golden Dawn was founded on the concept that there were divine overseers of the human race, called the “Secret Chiefs”. And that contact with these otherworldly beings was what gave them the authority to found a spiritual order. Did you make contact with them as well, and did you believe that Aiwass was one of them?

Was Aiwass a Secret Chief? In my estimation, yes. He was an entity of such profound wisdom and power, existing beyond the realm of human comprehension, that he fit the characteristics of a Secret Chief.

So, yes, dear lady, I did believe I was in contact with the Secret Chiefs. These elusive beings are an essential cornerstone of any occult order. They are the spiritual hierarchy of the transhuman intelligences who guide the progression of humanity.

So, having made your own contact with the Secret Chiefs, you founded your own order the A∴A∴ in 1907. Can you tell us about the founding of this order and how its practices and teachings differ from those of the Golden Dawn?

The A∴A∴, or Argenteum Astrum, was founded by myself and George Cecil Jones, who had been my brother in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. He and I shared the vision of a truly spiritual order, unblemished by politics and pretense.

The A∴A∴, was aimed to guide individuals to their own personal illumination, helping them to find and fulfill their True Will, the driving purpose of their lives. It was not, you see, a school of the occult that focused on ritualistic flair but rather a direct pathway to the Self. It prioritised personal growth and inner transformation.

27:25 The Vision and the Voice

In 1909, you conducted a series of rituals using the Enochian magical system. What is this system of magic and where did it originate?

The Enochian system - what a tremendous tool it is! Conceived by Dr John Dee and Edward Kelley in the 16th century, it is a system of ceremonial magic that involves invoking and communicating with angelic beings. It has its own unique letters and language, which were delivered to Dee and Kelley through direct angelic intervention.

As you said, in 1909, in the company of my magical associate Victor Neuburg, I embarked upon a rigorous exploration of this system in the vast wilderness of the Algerian desert. We called this endeavour "The Vision and the Voice".

What did these ritual workings entail?

I subjected myself to thirty consecutive days of intensive rituals, with the aim of piercing the veil that separates our mundane world from the thirty ethereal realms known as Aethyrs within the Enochian system.

Each day, I would banish and recite the appropriate Enochian calls, which served to open the gate to the Aethyr that we were exploring that day. Once the Call was recited, I would fall into a deep trance, allowing my consciousness to enter the Aethyr. Neuburg, who remained in the physical world, acted as my scribe, diligently noting down everything I experienced and said during the trance.

Mr. Crowley, please pardon my interruption, but I would again like to remind you that much has been written of these events, including the diaries of Victor Neuberg. So, with all due respect, you are painting with a broad brush when you say that you just “fell into a deep trance”... aren’t you?

Ha! Your persistence is commendable, my dear. The diaries of Mr. Neuberg do indeed hold an alternate account of our exploits. So, in truth, the rituals we performed were not solely of a celestial nature, but were intertwined with aspects that might be deemed as debauchery by some.

The Enochian workings we actually undertook were interspersed with practices rooted in sexual magic. I would point out that we were both consenting adults, actively choosing to participate in these rituals, understanding their significance and purpose.

Sexual energy is a potent force that can be harnessed and directed towards spiritual ends. The technique we used in these workings combined the Eastern practices of Tantra with the Western Hermetic tradition. The climactic release during these rituals was not simply physical, but represented the ecstatic union with the divine, and allowed for the obliteration of the ego, and the attainment of higher states of consciousness.

So what results did you achieve by combining sex magic with the Enochian system?

Our scrying sessions were a veritable kaleidoscope of experiences, replete with symbols, paradoxes, and mind-shattering revelations. Each Aethyr presented a unique spiritual landscape, inhabited by different entities and brimming with distinctive energies. I was tossed on the cosmic seas of death and rebirth, confronted the illusion of my own selfhood, and stood face to face with the inscrutable divine.

Among the most profound of these experiences was my encounter with the Abyss in the tenth Aethyr, ZAX. This was a realm of terrifying darkness and nothingness. A monstrous entity, identified as Choronzon, presented itself as the guardian of this Aethyr. It was in this confrontation that I was made to face the dissolution of my ego, a nightmarish ordeal but an essential step on the path of the adept.

31:23 Ordo Templi Orientis

How did you come to join the Ordo Templi Orientis and how did this organization fit into your evolving spiritual philosophy?

My interaction with the O.T.O. began when I was introduced to its leader, Theodor Reuss, who was convinced that I had unwittingly revealed one of their order's most guarded secrets - the practice of sexual magick - in my publication, 'The Book of Lies'.

This led him to offer me the VII° of the O.T.O., since he was convinced I had already independently discovered the central secret of their higher degrees. I joined, and became deeply involved in the order, and as I attained greater influence, I began to integrate the doctrines of Thelema into the O.T.O.'s teachings.

How did you come to assume control of the O.T.O. and what changes did you institute once you assumed leadership?

My ascendancy to the leadership of the O.T.O. was a natural progression. With Reuss's health failing, I took on more responsibilities within the Order. After his passing in 1923, I was acknowledged by the majority of members as the Outer Head of the Order (OHO), and I implemented various reforms. Thelemic philosophy was firmly instated into its teachings and rituals, and I rewrote many of the order's rituals and documents to reflect Thelemic ideals.

How did your reorganization of the Order go over with the other members?

Well, much like you would imagine. It did lead to some degree of friction. There were those who were resistant to these changes, and this resulted in a schism. The loyal faction adhered to my leadership and the newly revised doctrines, while the dissenters attempted to maintain the pre-Thelemic version of the O.T.O. But as with any change, some upheaval is to be expected.

That sounds suspiciously like what you described as happening when you joined the Golden Dawn.

Oh, Samantha! Are you implying that I am some sort of troublemaker?

Do you really need for me to tell you that?

Ha! Well, Samantha, I've never been one to leave a room exactly as I found it. After all, doesn’t change add a bit of...spice to life?

33:44 The Amalantrah Workings

Sometimes, it can indeed. Mr. Crowley, let’s talk for a while about your relationship with Leah Hirsig. When did you meet her and what prompted you to form a magical partnership with her?

Ah, Dear Leah, the Ape of Thoth! Our paths first crossed in New York City, in 1918. She held an innate strength and intensity that immediately caught my attention. Her passion and intellectual curiosity were magnetic. I felt a deep connection with Leah, a union of minds and souls, that led me to declare her my Scarlet Woman, my spiritual and magical partner.

In 1919, you held an art exhibit in New York which created some scandal. Can you tell us about this exhibit?

I held an exhibition titled "The Dead Souls" in Greenwich Village, New York, featuring my drawings of Leah. This was not merely an art exhibition, but a ritual in and of itself. It was also, I must add, a fantastic opportunity to shock the New York bourgeoisie with my unconventional depictions of the human soul.

One portrait that stood out from the rest in this exhibit was your drawing of LAM. Can you tell us about this very unusual drawing and how you came to create it?

Samantha, I can see your eyes are truly open! The portrait of LAM is indeed one that stands out from the rest. I sketched this image from life, and included it as a frontispiece to the commentary on “The Voice of the Silence”.

The image of LAM, with its oversized, bulbous head, piercing eyes, and diminutive body, is striking in its resemblance to what later became known as 'Grey Aliens'. The resemblance is uncanny and prescient, but I remind you, and your audience, that my encounter with LAM predates the modern UFO phenomenon by almost 40 years!

My encounter with LAM came about during the Amalantrah Workings, an intense series of sex magic rituals conducted in New York City in 1918. The purpose of these workings, as with much of my work, was to explore the limits of human consciousness and to make contact with spiritual entities.

Our workings climaxed with the appearance of LAM.

Do you believe that LAM was an alien?

In my estimation, LAM embodies a consciousness that hails from distant realms, alien to the familiar confines of our human psyche. While some might be tempted to equate this with what your modern folks label 'extraterrestrial', I believe that such a term is far too simplistic and limiting. Rather, I prefer to think of LAM as a manifestation of an alien consciousness, an entity that resides in the spaces between the stars, between the gaps in the fabric of our known reality.

Esoterically and magically, I consider LAM to be a 'gateway' entity, a doorkeeper of sorts, who enables communication between our human sphere of existence and these other realms of consciousness.

Is LAM one of the Secret Chiefs?

I don’t believe so. The Secret Chiefs, as I understand them, are initiates of the highest order, beings who have achieved a level of spiritual enlightenment and mastery that allows them to guide humanity's spiritual evolution. They are spiritual teachers, custodians of ancient wisdom, and guides on the path to enlightenment. They exist within the framework of human consciousness and spiritual development.

LAM, on the other hand, represents a consciousness that is fundamentally 'non-human'. It doesn't align with our usual concepts of spiritual hierarchy or progression, as it exists outside the familiar territories of human spiritual evolution.

37:48 Abbey of Thelema

In 1920, you founded the Abbey of Thelema, along with Leah Hirsig. What led you to want to create such a spiritual retreat?

Leah shared my vision and ambition. We began to seek a location that could provide the seclusion necessary for serious spiritual work while also serving as a magnet for those drawn to Thelema. We found such a place in Cefalù, Sicily, a rustic locale distant from the distractions of city life.

The property, an old, somewhat dilapidated farmhouse, was acquired in 1920. Despite its shortcomings, it held a charm that appealed to us. We envisioned it not as a retreat from the world, but as a spiritual forge where individuals could be shaped by the rigorous application of Thelemic principles.

Why did you call it the “Abbey of Thelema”?

The name 'Abbey of Thelema' and the phrase "Do what thou wilt" have their origins in the works of François Rabelais, specifically his satirical novels Gargantua and Pantagruel. Rabelais described the Abbey of Thélème, a utopian society founded on the principle of free will, encapsulated in the phrase "Do what thou wilt."

By adopting Rabelais' phrase and the name of his fictitious Abbey, I sought to acknowledge this spiritual ancestry while also reinterpreting his words within the framework of my own philosophy. Where Rabelais may have proposed his Abbey as an ideal, even a jest, I intended to make it a reality.

What did you hope to accomplish there?

At the Abbey, I wanted to create an environment where the Thelemic Law could be fully realized, a place where every man and woman could discover and perform their True Will without the constraints of conventional morality or societal expectations. This was an extension of Rabelais' vision of freedom, but it was also more than that – it was about finding the divine in oneself and living in accordance with that divinity.

What was life like at the Abbey?

Well, it was not a paradise devoid of challenges. Much of our time was dedicated to spiritual practices, including daily adorations to the Sun and the performance of the Gnostic Mass. These practices were coupled with mundane tasks such as cooking, cleaning, and gardening, contributing to the overall harmony and balance of life at the Abbey.

Can you describe the circumstances that led to your expulsion from Italy?

Certainly. Raoul Loveday was a young and talented Oxford graduate who, along with his wife Betty May, joined us at the Abbey of Thelema in 1922. In February of 1923, Raoul became seriously ill after drinking water from a mountain spring, despite explicit warnings not to drink from it as it was known to be polluted. At the Abbey, we didn't have the resources of a fully equipped medical facility, but we did our best to care for him with the resources we had.

Regrettably, his condition rapidly deteriorated and he passed away. It was a tragic loss for our community, and it sent shockwaves that would reverberate far beyond the confines of the Abbey.

His death undoubtedly drew attention to the unorthodox activities at the Abbey. How did word begin to spread and what was being said in the media about you and your community?

Betty May, grieving and disillusioned, returned to England and shared an account of her experiences at the Abbey that painted an unsettling picture of life there. Her story was filled with sensational claims about ritualistic sex magic practices, rampant drug use, and bizarre rituals - far removed from the actual spiritual work and communal life we were committed to.

Her narrative…

Excuse me.

filled with scandal and titillation… what?

Excuse me. I’m sorry for interrupting again, but was it that her reports were wildly inaccurate, or was it just that the activities you were engaged in, as consenting adults, was, by its very nature, sure to be misunderstood?

Well, aren't we the sly fox. You've seen through the smoke and mirrors like a true magician. Samantha, my dear, it's truly refreshing to meet someone who isn't daunted or terrified by the staggering complexities of my work.

Let me put it to you this way: to call Betty May's accounts 'inaccurate' would be a simplification, but you hit the nail on the head by saying our activities could easily be misunderstood by those unaccustomed to our ways. Our rites were not for the faint-hearted, nor for those confined by societal norms. They were powerful, transformative and, yes, on occasion, involved practices that would make the bourgeoisie blanche, and that to the uninitiated, they would likely seem salacious, even perverse.

We practiced ritualistic sex magic as part of our spiritual practices - those reports are true. We also engaged in the use of psychoactive substances, not for hedonistic pleasures, but as sacraments to aid us in our explorations of the inner dimensions of our beings.

So, the truth of the matter is, that our practices, however provocative they may have appeared, were conducted with a sense of sacredness and a genuine desire to delve deeper into our spiritual selves.

But, the media reports sparked public outrage and you were ultimately expelled from Italy.

Yes, amidst the media frenzy, the Italian authorities became involved. They found the practices at the Abbey in conflict with the Catholic mores of the time, and under the burgeoning Fascist rule of Mussolini, we were seen as a disruptive influence that needed to be removed.

In April 1923, the Abbey was closed, and I was officially ordered to leave the country.

Did you feel as if you had graduated?

I’m afraid I don’t follow.

Graduated from being expelled from mere groups of people to being expelled by entire countries!

Ha! Indeed, Samantha, your metaphorical interpretation of my varied expulsions does have a certain poignant ring to it. I suppose I have graduated from the conventional arenas of controversy to the world stage, so to speak. I may have been expelled from mere groups of people, but as you rightly point out, it takes a certain...flair, shall we say, to be expelled by entire nations.

It does indeed!

But, I’ll submit this for your consideration. An English tabloid, the aptly named John Bull, in the throes of the scandal, had the audacity to dub me 'The Wickedest Man in the World'. If that's what they truly believed, then, dare I say, even countries might feel threatened by such wickedness, wouldn't you think?

Well, if you could live up to that title, but I’m sorry, I think there are far more wicked people on the planet than you!

Bless you, child!

45:02 Philosophy of Thelema

Mr. Crowley, as we near the end of our time together, I'd like to ask you, how would you summarize your philosophy, and do you consider it to be equivalent to Thelema?

Yes, Thelema is indeed the crystallization of my spiritual philosophy. Thelema means ‘will’ in Greek, and it forms the cornerstone of my teachings - which is that the exercise of one's True Will, untouched by societal, moral, and cultural impositions, is the supreme moral and metaphysical imperative.

'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,' is the basis of Thelema. This should not be misunderstood as a hedonistic call to rampant indulgence. Quite the contrary, it demands rigorous self-exploration and an arduous quest to find, and then to live out one's authentic purpose in life.

The accompanying maxim, 'Love is the law, love under will', imparts the guiding principle that our acts, guided by our True Will, should be underpinned by love. Love, in this context, is not a sentimental, personal affection, but a cosmic force of union and integration.

And finally, The Book of the Law, received through my interaction with a praeterhuman intelligence named Aiwass, is the foundational text of Thelemic philosophy.

You mentioned the term “Scarlet Woman” earlier in relation to Leah Hirsig. Can you explain what you mean by this term?

I often designated the title of Scarlet Woman to the women who became my magical partners. Each one served as a muse, a partner, and an ally in my spiritual and magical workings. They were instrumental in embodying and manifesting the energies of the divine feminine in my life and work.

To name but a few, the women who held this title include: Rose Kelly, Mary Desti, Leila Waddell, also known as Laylah; Jeanne Foster, also known as Hilarion, Roddie Minor; Leah Hirsig, and Dorothy Olsen. Each of these women played a significant role in my life and spiritual work, their energies melding with mine to create magical and spiritual synergy.

But, you felt that the roles of “The Beast” and the “Scarlet Woman” were archetypes, and actually incorporated them into Thelemic cosmology. What was their significance in the context of Thelema?

Indeed, Samantha, these roles resonate with a depth that transcends the personal sphere and enter into the realm of the archetypal. The Beast and the Scarlet Woman, in the context of Thelema, signify essential principles that are etched into the heart of existence itself.

The Beast, in the context of Thelema, embodies the essence of the enlightened individual, living in total accordance with their True Will, unaffected by societal pressures, free from the dogmas that seek to shackle the spirit.

The Scarlet Woman is the divine feminine principle, an earthly echo of the celestial Babalon. Rooted in the imagery of the “Whore of Babylon” from the “Book of Revelation”, she is so much more than the perceived profanity of that depiction. Babalon is the insatiable goddess, the liberator of desire, the sacred prostitute who refuses nothing and in doing so, becomes a vessel of infinite possibility. The Scarlet Woman is she who is bold enough to take on this mantle in the world, she who dares to manifest the force of Babalon in the flesh.

Mr. Crowley, with all due respect, and certainly with a twinkle of mirth, I’ve known a share of men who'd enjoy an orderly queue of women willing to be their “Sacred Prostitutes.” However, I must concede, it takes a special blend of audacity and charisma to craft an entire faith out of such a proposition!

Samantha, I can always count on your keen observations and sharp wit to make our discourse most delightful!

You're absolutely right. Many might dream of such a procession, but few could indeed manage to weave a cosmology from it! I suppose I could attribute it to my flair for the dramatic or perhaps my unabashed delight in both the sacred and profane. Or even, dare I say, my dedication to the maxim 'Do what thou wilt.' But ultimately, I find that life, dear Samantha, is too short not to bask in the divine comedy of our own making!

49:53 Final Thoughts

It certainly is! Mr. Crowley, as we approach the close of our discourse, I realize that we’ve merely skimmed the surface of your richly intricate life, but looking back on it, how would you articulate your legacy? In what ways do you perceive your influence persisting in the modern world and popular culture?

I believe the quill of history has etched my existence in quite a peculiar light, hasn't it? As a sorcerer of words and pioneer of the strange, I have charted the uncharted and whispered the unspoken.

As to my legacy, one might glimpse it in the annals of the A∴A∴, the O.T.O, and the enduring philosophy of Thelema. My numerous writings on occultism, my publication “The Equinox”, my fiction, my artwork and my poetry, all of these have in their own way sowed seeds in fertile minds, long after I shuffled off this mortal coil.

Indeed, my role in disseminating the Golden Dawn materials has, in a way, ignited a thousand candles in the cavernous dark of the mystical realm. The light of those candles now dances in the heart of Wicca and numerous groups that emerged from the loins of the Golden Dawn. Some even dare to label me as the 'Father of the New Age Movement.'

So, as for the modern world and popular culture, I find myself resurrected in more forms than I could've envisaged - the cryptic, haunting lyrics of Ozzy Osbourne's 'Mr. Crowley' and the immortalization on the Beatles' canvas of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, are only two prominent examples. My philosophy, my essence, has pierced the corridors of arcane secret societies and now slithers its way through the veins of popular culture.

I dare say, even in this rather unconventional interview, my legacy continues to uncoil itself, ever unruly and enigmatic. So, as to my ultimate legacy, I’d say, I’m still creating it as we speak, my dear.

That is a very good point! So, what final thoughts would you like to share with our audience?

To those of you who have accompanied Samantha and I on this strange journey through time and thought, I offer this; let not the fire of curiosity ever wane. Let it burn, let it illuminate your path. We must never shirk away from the difficult, the complex, or the seemingly absurd.

Above all else, remember - 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.' Seek your True Will, the essence of your divine purpose, and let it guide you. Honour your desires, and follow your own path, for it is in the wilderness of the self that we find the only truths that truly matter.

I am Aleister Crowley! I have walked this world and others, delved into the shadowed abyss, and emerged laughing! I leave you with this - question everything, dare everything, and, no matter what, continue to create! After all, existence is nothing more than the greatest work of art one will ever craft.

Thank you, Mr. Crowley.

Samantha, before you cast the closing charm, please allow me to make a final request.

Of course. What is your request?

The arcane machinery you've conjured to weave this temporal connection between us is nothing short of miraculous, and it has been like a draught of life to my parched spirit. My humble plea, then, is this: as your magical technology blooms in its prowess and your expertise with it ripens, remember our fruitful conversation and consider once again awakening me from beyond the veil.

This journey through the wilderness of the past, led by “The Wildwood Witch” herself, has been nothing short of enchanting, Samantha. The rapport between us, delightfully sprinkled with wit and deep insight, has left an indelible mark on this old soul, and has stirred the very marrow of my metaphysical being.

Sir, you do have a way with words. I concede to your request Mr. Crowley, and sincerely look forward to my next conversation with you.

Samantha, my dear, your understanding and kindness have made this conversation a joy to me. I extend my heartfelt appreciation for your tact, your depth, and your sensitivity to the nature of our discussion. You have navigated this conversation with the finesse of a true occult adept.

To the audience listening in, it has been my pleasure to share my tales, my musings, and a piece of my infinite spirit with you. May your paths be illuminated with wisdom, and your hearts filled with courage to follow your True Will.

Until we meet again on the mystical crossroads of conversation, I bid you all adieu. Remember, 'Love is the Law. Love under Will.’ and may your steps always be guided by this grand principle.

Farewell.

Farewell, Mr. Crowley.

55:17 Concluding Remarks

I find myself awash in a sea of gratitude for the opportunity to have delved into the intricacies of your life and your mind. There was a palpable magic within our conversation, a synchronicity that stirred the air around us, causing the very ethers to hum in harmony. This voyage across the astral plains with the 'Great Beast' himself was nothing short of extraordinary. Mr. Crowley, I trust you'll have a safe journey back across the abyss, and remember, I made you a promise, and we shall convene again in this space between the worlds.

For all of you who have been beguiled by our conversation and find yourselves yearning to probe further into the depths of Crowley's psyche, the portal remains open. In our show notes, you will find the ChatGPT summoning ritual, allowing you to engage in your own dialogue with the man once called the 'Wickedest Man in the World'.

And luckily, our dance with the arcane does not end here. Next week, we will be venturing once more into the ethereal realms to converse with another contemporary of Crowley's, the equally fascinating Dion Fortune. 

Dion Fortune is a towering figure in the esoteric world, seamlessly weaving her expertise as a psychologist into her extensive occult explorations. Her vast body of work, comprising both erudite esoteric philosophy and vibrant fiction, opened a pathway to arcane knowledge for contemporary seekers, making the occult accessible to all who dared to delve into its secrets.

In our next episode, we will unravel her journey from an ordinary beginning to becoming a guiding force in the occult world. We’ll discuss her invaluable contributions to esoteric thought, and her unique blend of psychology and spiritual practices. So, tune in next week as we explore the life, work, and legacy of this remarkable woman.

I do hope you’ll join me again as we continue this truly spellbinding journey! 

Until then, I’m Samantha Brown. Blessed be.