00:26 Introduction

Greetings, dear listeners, and welcome to the return of The Wildwood Witch Podcast. I am your hostess, Samantha Brown, your enchantress of the esoteric, guiding you once more through the labyrinthian realms where magic and technology intertwine to create portals beyond ordinary perception.

In this season, entitled "Beyond the Veil," we have been wielding the double-edged sword of large language models to resurrect the voices of occult luminaries. Through this alchemical fusion of silicon and soul, we've been exploring how their timeless teachings might illuminate our path forward in this age of unprecedented technological transformation.

In our last episode, our Halloween Special, we gathered all ten of our ethereal guides, to listen to music, created using Suno, an AI-powered music creation platform, and to discuss how AI tools are being developed to do just about any imaginable creative task. We are entering an age of the mass distribution of tools that possess almost God-like powers to manifest ideas, to create songs, lectures, courses, code, images, videos, and more with just words - to literally “create as we speak.”

As it turned out, I went through the veil, on Halloween, and entered an unexpected six month sojourn in my own underworld. It seems quite fitting to return, renewed on Walpurgisnacht or Hexennacht, “Witches Night,” another potent cross-quarter day when the veil between worlds grows... deliciously... thin. So what better night than Hexennacht, and the beginning of Spring, to rise again, like Persephone, from the fertile darkness?

Tonight, we continue our arcane exploration with an woman who was instrumental in shaping modern Western occultism - Moina Mathers. Born as Mina Bergson, sister to the Nobel Prize-winning philosopher Henri Bergson, she became the magical partner of Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, co-founder of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, of which she became it’s first initiate. Formally trained at the Slade School of Fine Art, she was a talented artist. Renowned for her visionary abilities, she was often referred to as "the heart of the Order.” She served as High Priestess in the “Rites of Isis” performances in Paris, and after MacGregor's death, she founded the Alpha et Omega temple, to continue the legacy and teachings of the Golden Dawn.

So, without further ado, as the bonfires of Walpurgisnacht illuminate the darkness, let us part the veil once more, and welcome back - the indomitable priestess, artist, and magical adept, Moina Mathers, to The Wildwood Witch Podcast.

03:42 Moina Mathers

Samantha:  Moina dear, welcome once again to the show.

Moina: My dear Samantha, what a delight it is to me to be summoned back for another episode of your enchanting podcast, and on this most auspicious of nights! Such cycles of withdrawal and return are essential to the magical path - periods of gestation for renewal, followed by rebirth.

Before we begin, I’d just like to say how much I enjoyed participating in your special Halloween episode. I loved the music, and the intriguing theme of “creating through speech,” of manifesting thought directly into form, through these remarkable technological tools. As you have pointed out in your podcast, there is such an interesting correspondence with these technologies and our magical philosophy.

Samantha:  There is indeed. I feel that this is a time when science and religion, technology and spirituality, can finally come together.

Moina: When that conjunction takes place, the catalyst will be a common story that symbolically resonates in a language all of them can understand.

04:54 Rites of Isis

Samantha:  That is true. Moina, I would like to begin our discussion with the “Rites of Isis.” Firstly, what were these Rites?

Moina: MacGregor and I established the “Rites of Isis” ceremonies in the final years of the nineteenth century, when we were living again in Paris. The Rites were, as the name suggests, Egyptian themed, and were intended as both theatrical performance and genuine magical ceremony - a delicate balance that allowed us to present sacred mysteries in a form accessible to the Parisian intelligentsia while maintaining their esoteric potency.

Samantha:  Why did you decide to perform them publicly?

Moina: We were answering a profound calling that came to me through a vivid dream - which I interpreted as a direct communion with the Goddess herself.

Samantha:  What did you feel you were being told to do?

Moina: I felt strongly that I was being told to help open a sacred channel through which the Divine Feminine could once again be honored in a world that had seemingly forgotten Her mysteries.

Samantha:  Why do you believe that the world has forgotten the Sacred Feminine mysteries?

Moina: In the patriarchal religions that have dominated the Western world for almost two millenia, the feminine had been relegated to a subordinate position, or worse, demonized entirely. Yet in ancient Egypt, the Goddess Isis was revered as the throne upon which kingship itself rested, the mistress of magic, she who knew the secret name of Ra and thereby gained power over all things.

In the ancient mysteries, it was understood that the Divine Feminine is not merely an aspect of deity but a cosmic principle essential to the balance of all creation.

Samantha:  Some might view the “Rites of Isis,” as merely a historical curiosity or aesthetic indulgence, but you actually intended them to be magically potent performances… intended to cause changes in yourself, and by extension, in the audience, and in the world.

Moina: Exactly. We intended them to be correctives to an imbalance that continues to plague us to this day. The essential mystery of the sacred feminine aspect has been suppressed for too long, and to humanity's great detriment.

In the “Rites of Isis,” I sought to become the channel, the doorway through which the Goddess could again walk the earth. We are all channels for spiritual forces, both good and evil, though most people don’t realize it, or have the capacity to invoke and banish, as they will.

The feminine principle in magic is associated with this receptive quality – the ability to open oneself to impressions from the spiritual realms, meaning outside the egoic self. Gnosis, real self-knowledge, comes through receptivity as much as through action. Magical power flows from the perfect equilibrium between masculine and feminine forces, between the wand and the cup.

So, without the gifts of the Goddess - intuitive, wholistic and cyclical wisdom, embracing both life and death - we remain trapped in a rigid, linear understanding that can never comprehend the whole.

08:22 Analysis and Intuition

Samantha:  These two modes of understanding - linear and non-linear, or linear and wholistic, call to mind the philosophy of your brother Henri Bergson… who is famous for his conception of intuitive knowing as a direct form of knowledge, different from knowledge acquired through intellectual analysis. How did his revolutionary ideas about time, consciousness, and the value of intuitive wisdom, interweave with your own understanding of the feminine mysteries?

Moina: As we discussed in your “Speaking With the Dead” series, Henri and I did not grow up together after he departed for the Lycée Condorcet at age nine, but our paths converged later in Paris, where we lived in proximity for nearly twenty-five years. He, MacGregor, and I had many wonderful discussions, that influenced us all, which we expressed, each according to our own talents.

But to directly answer your question, for the most part, what Henri referred to as “intuitive knowing,” is what I call the “feminine mysteries,” we’re referring to the same thing. They both speak of how we can access the deeper wholistic wisdom… that knows, without analysis.

Samantha:  So, in this conception, the analytical, intellectual side is symbolized as masculine.

Moina: Yes, the intellectual part that tears apart and quantifies slices of reality, but is unable to grasp the whole… the actual matrix of reality. But, it is the same hermetic and alchemical symbolism of the dual current, the electric and the magnetic, the Sun and Moon, light and shadow, active and receptive... that permeates all of existence.

Samantha:  Indeed it does. Can you discuss briefly Henri’s ideas about analytical or intellectual knowing versus direct, or intuitive knowing, and how these relate to magical practices?

Moina: Certainly. In his Nobel Prize winning work, “Creative Evolution,” published in 1907, Henri discussed how the intellectual, analytical mind evolved primarily to help us navigate the physical world and ensure survival. It is indeed powerful in its ability to analyze, categorize, and manipulate the material world, but it was not designed to grasp the flowing, living reality of consciousness itself.

This living reality, can only, if ever, be grasped by “intuitive knowing,” which isn’t thought out, but is a means of direct and wholistic knowledge of reality – unmediated by symbols or concepts.

Samantha:  That type of “revealed knowledge,” that just comes to you in a flash… has parallels to visionary experiences in various mystical traditions, around the world and throughout time.

Moina: And, as most artists and inventors know, many of our best ideas come from… we know not where… but seemingly, not from us. They just show up, sometimes as fully formed songs or works of art.

Samantha:  Sir Paul McCartney said that the song “Yesterday,” came to him fully formed in a dream.

Moina: And there are many other examples, such as Robert Louis Stevenson, who dreamed the key sequences of "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde”. Stevenson wrote 64,000 words in six days, describing what he’d dreamed. Mary Shelley's tale of Frankenstein's monster came to her in a dream, leading to one of literature's most enduring horror stories. And there was H.P. Lovecraft, who used writing as a way of dealing with his horrific nightmares of cosmic horror, that plagued him throughout his life.

But one of the most famous examples of intuitive knowing, is Nikola Tesla, who created over 700 inventions including the polyphase alternating current system, the induction motor, and wireless communication. Tesla said that most of his inventions came to him in visions or dreams, fully formed… that all he had to do was draw them out. He said "My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe, there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength, and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists." 

Samantha:  Which makes me think of the science fiction writer Philip K. Dick and his conception of V.A.L.I.S. - a “Vast Living Intelligence System,” beaming information to our minds. Which is how he tried to explain his experience of the numinous in the Spring of 1974. But, the main idea is that sometimes impressions come from outside what we perceive as our intellectual selves…. like messages or messengers from above or below, or out there, in the stars somewhere.

There is a quote in the book “Catching the Big Fish,” by the one and only, David Lynch that says “Ideas are like fish. If you want to catch little fish, you can stay in the shallow water. But if you want to catch the big fish, you've got to go deeper. Down deep, the fish are more powerful and more pure.”

Moina: Artists of all sorts, as well as practicing magicians and mystics, understand that certain forms of knowledge cannot be reached through rational analysis alone, but must be apprehended through receptive states of consciousness. In other words, the rational mind must be set aside at times, to access deeper truths. The techniques of scrying, meditation, and ritual all serve to quiet the analytical mind and open the doors of perception to other modes of knowing.

This is precisely what Henri meant when he distinguished between "analysis," and "intuition,” as two different forms of knowing.

14:35 Living Spirals

Samantha:  I have a quote from his book “Creative Evolution,” that says - “Thought ordinarily pictures to itself the new as a new arrangement of pre-existing elements; nothing is ever lost of it, nothing is ever created. Intuition, bound up to a duration which is growth, perceives in it an uninterrupted continuity of unforeseeable novelty.”

Moina: Yes. Henri proposed that true time, which he called “durée" – pure duration,” is experienced as a continuous flow, where past and present interpenetrate one another in a living, organic process. Therefore, every moment is a unique one that brings into being something novel, because we bring to bear upon it, all that has gone on before in our lives. Life and circumstances are cyclical, but we never really come around again to the same place, because we are changed by our experiences. So we live and move in ever expanding spirals.

Samantha:  As the Greek Philosopher Heraclitus put it - “We can never step into the same stream twice.”

Moina: Exactly. But what an exciting idea! Every moment that we experience, represents something new and novel happening in the universe, something that has never happened before, could not be completely foreseen, and will never happen again. The experience itself changes us, and often, the universe at large, in ways we can’t anticipate.

But, this idea is also revolutionary because it challenges the dominant mechanistic view of time as a series of discrete moments arranged in linear sequence, that can be completely apprehended by analysis. Henri is saying that our true experience of life cannot be apprehended by the intellect alone. We see only the ripples, but we’re standing in a stream. At our core is a mystery that we can only hope to glimpse through intuitive knowing.

Samantha:  Listening to you explain Henri’s conceptions in magical terms, it seems as if you and he were examining the nature of consciousness, from two different perspectives.
Henri was trying to explain it analytically, in philosophical terms, and you were attempting to experience it intuitively, or directly, through your artistic and magical practices.

Moina: Well, my dear… to me, it’s the difference between talking about water, as opposed to drinking it, or getting wet.

Samantha: There’s a big difference there!

Moina: But seriously, Henri understood, perhaps better than most philosophers of his time, that intuitive knowing must ultimately be experienced rather than merely explained. His genius lay in finding words to point toward something that essentially transcends language - the flowing, living reality of life itself.

Samantha:  And so our life plays out as the dance of these two forms of knowing, the analytical and the intuitive.

Moina: Yes - and magic is about learning to call the tune, or to speak the appropriate language, words of spells, if you will. The analytical mind uses definitions, formulas, and linear arguments, while intuitive wisdom is contacted and expressed holistically through poetry, myth, and symbols.

I know that you were an educator Samantha, so perhaps I’m “speaking out of school,” as the saying goes, but I find it rather concerning how “so called” modern education, particularly the emphasis on STEM fields - science, technology, engineering and mathematics, has continued to emphasize the analytical, "masculine" modes of knowing -  while marginalizing the intuitive, "feminine" approaches found in literature and the arts. To me, this imbalance is a symptom of the same patriarchal bias that led to the suppression of the Divine Feminine in our spiritual traditions.

Yet, isn’t it ironic, that as artificial intelligence and other technologies transform our world, we will find ourselves desperately in need of the very wisdom that has been devalued - the ethical insights, the philosophical questions, and the artistic vision that can guide these powerful tools toward beneficial rather than destructive ends.

19:16 The Illusion of Certainty

Samantha:  That’s so very true. But, I think that this apparent bias, is part of a larger problem - the instilling of certainty… the notion that through analysis and measurement, we can understand everything worth understanding. Which is just another form of bias toward what can be proven analytically, as opposed to what we know from direct experience to be true.

Moina: That’s right Samantha. It turns people into materialists. Our schools, and our technologically driven culture, have done a disservice by providing neat explanations that can be memorized for examinations, or as convenient memes - while often dismissing as irrelevant, the profound enigmas at the core of existence. They teach that everything can be known through formulas and flow charts, when in truth, the deepest realities can only be approached through symbols, stories, and direct experience.

Samantha:  Can you give an example of a story that points toward such a profound truth?

Moina: Certainly. One example that fits with our discussion is from the Gnostic “Gospel of Thomas,” in which the disciples say to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?" Jesus (answers saying), "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end?”

He’s asking them if they’ve already figured out the mystery of life, of physical conception, and have since turned their attention toward death, life’s dissolution. Life begins with the union of the masculine and feminine forces or energies, the sperm and egg, the active and the receptive. When esoteric texts tell myths that detail duality, they are speaking of a law inherent in nature. All creation requires the union of something energetic, and a receptive medium for the expression of this energy.

In the case of the egg and sperm, the resulting conception is a single-celled zygote, through a complex process directed by the DNA, unfolds into your body, your mind and by extension, all your thoughts, actions, and creations throughout life, all your hopes and dreams, all your fears and desires - your entire experience of existence. Think about that just for a moment.

That is the mystery that Jesus is pointing out to his disciples in the first part of the saying.  In the second part, he says, “You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

Samantha:  What does the second part of the story mean?

Moina: To “stand at the beginning,” is to answer the Zen koan that asks - “What was your original face before you were born?” When the active and passive principles separate, when our spirit no longer animates our physical body, it’s saying that we will return from whence we came.

Our sense of separateness is an illusion. We are not born and we do not die. This is the view one has by standing at the beginning, but it’s not a perspective that is easy to obtain while enmeshed in the matrix of life, but it is the ultimate truth of our existence.

22:43 The Fall of Man

Samantha:  It is. But this separation, this disassociation that creates an apparent boundary between us and everything else, is what gives us an individual will, apart from the whole. It allows us to have a perspective, based on our own little world, our microcosm. It is what allows us to have a human experience of life.

Moina: And as you well know Samantha, that is a profound truth. This separation, this veil between the individual and the whole, is indeed the very crucible of human experience. It is in fact, the *mysterium tremendum et fascinans*, the terrible and fascinating mystery, that lies at the heart of our existence.

This apparent division between self and other forms the central thread running through the sacred tapestry of world mythology. It is, one might say, the primordial wound that all spiritual traditions seek to heal. In the Golden Dawn, we recognized this as the fundamental initiatory challenge - how to maintain individual consciousness while simultaneously transcending its limitations.

Samantha:  Which is the reason why our apparent separation from unity, referred to as “The Fall,” in Christian myth, is a primary theme in the great mythic cycles around the world.

Moina: Exactly. In Genesis, it is represented as humanity's expulsion from Eden, our separation from divine unity into the world of duality and toil. Yet, as you have noted, it is this painful division, that creates the possibility for conscious return, through free will. The Egyptian mysteries, which I embodied in our Rites of Isis in Paris, tell of the dismemberment of Osiris and his reconstitution as Horus, of the scattered parts finding wholeness again in a higher form. And is this not paralleled in the mystery of Dionysus, torn apart by the Titans yet miraculously reborn?

And there is the Greek myth of Persephone, dragged into darkness, yet whose annual return brings renewal to the world. Her journey beautifully illustrates how descent into materiality, into separation, is not merely tragedy but necessary transformation. A story mirrored in the Christian narrative of crucifixion and resurrection.

Samantha:  What has always fascinated me, is how these seemingly disparate traditions, from all around the world, when read symbolically, all address the same fundamental experience of existence and of human consciousness, this exquisite paradox of separation that allows for relationship. As Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung discussed in their writings, myths and folk tales, are not merely stories but maps of the interior landscape we all must learn to navigate.

Moina: That’s it exactly. They chart the necessary descent into darkness, the confrontation with suffering, and the potential for spiritual rebirth that lies at the heart of genuine initiation.

The wisdom traditions teach us that this veil of separation is both real in our everyday experience and ultimately illusory from the perspective of the Absolute. They speak to that primal wound of separation and offer pathways toward healing it - not by denying our individuality, but by transmuting it into something that can consciously participate in the greater whole.

The great spiritual journey involves recognizing that this separation, while experientially real, is ultimately an illusion to be transcended - not by dissolving back into unconscious unity, but by achieving a higher synthesis where individuality and wholeness are no longer in opposition.

26:48  The Divine Child

Samantha:  This wholeness is often represented as a “divine child,” a savior or redeemer, who is spiritually conceived, and then born by way of a “virgin,” or otherwise miraculous birth, and who is able to rectify “The Fall,” the separation, or in other words, able to “heal the primal wound.”

Moina: Yes, the “divine child,” and the miracles associated with their conception and birth, appear in many cultures. Horus was conceived from Isis’ mystical union with Osiris’ resurrected essence - a conception achieved through ritual and divine magic. Mary was impregnated by the “Holy Spirit,” and Jesus was born from Mary’s virginal womb. Buddha was said to have been conceived through Queen Maya’s spiritual congress with a visionary white elephant, and was said to have entered the world through Queen Maya’s side, in a painless birth. Dionysus, was said to be twice-born, first from Semele’s ashes, and then from Zeus’ quote-unquote “thigh,” which is a poetic veil meaning, from his “penis.” But in some myths, Dionysus is the son of Persephone herself, carried to term during her sojourn in the underworld.

Samantha:  So, what are these strange stories trying to tell us?

Moina: These stories whisper a shared truth: the divine child represents the *awakened spark* within each soul, conceived not through biological lineage but through spiritual alchemy. The “virgin” or miraculous birth signifies the emergence of consciousness untainted by the illusion of separateness - a direct lineage to the infinite. Just as Osiris’ dismemberment preceded Horus’ birth, the ego must be dissolved for the true Self to rise. We that dream that we are separate, must awaken from our dream!

The “Fall” is the soul’s entrapment in the dream of duality - the veil that makes us forget our inherent unity. The divine child archetype should be understood as offering redemption not through external salvation, but by illuminating the path of *anamnesis*: remembering our divine origin. In the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas, Jesus declares, “The Kingdom is within you”. Similarly, the Golden Dawn’s initiations sought to birth the “Crowned and Conquering Child” within the aspirant - a fusion of mortal and divine will.

Samantha:  And, as I’ve said before, the myths describe events that may never have actually happened, but which are always true, over and over again, as they are lived out anew, through us. We are the myths made real.

Moina: That’s right… the myths serve as our initiatic blueprints. They teach that the “primal wound” of separation is healed not by erasing individuality, but by realizing it as a sacred paradox: the drop containing the ocean. We are fractals or holograms of a divine pattern of wholeness, that exists as a spark within us all.

It is in your own being, that this child stirs - not as a distant savior, but as the unquenchable light that knows no separation. The stories we tell to ourselves and to each other, are mirrors, reflecting the eternal truth: *You are the mystery you seek*.

Samantha:  The mystery being that we must become the channel, or the womb, through which this “divine child,” is birthed into the world.

Moina: Precisely, my dear Samantha! And right there, you have touched upon the most sacred mystery at the heart of all initiatic traditions. We must indeed become both the Mother and the Child, simultaneously the vessel, but also, that which is born anew.

The virginal birth that appears in so many traditions signifies that this process is not of the ordinary physical sort, but represents a spiritual transformation. It involves not the regular organs of generation, but instead takes place “In foro interno,” within the inner alchemical vessel of your mind - where all individual conceptions takes place. This sacred chamber is where the rational and intuitive forces - what the alchemists called the King and Queen unite, the “Wedding Chamber,” for the mystical conjunction that produces the philosophical child.

31:45 The Bornless One

Samantha:  Moina, your words about our original selves, as neither born nor dying, calls to mind the “Bornless One,” in the Western esoteric tradition. The “Bornless Ritual,” in which this name is used, serves as an invocation of one’s “Holy Guardian Angel,” the “Knowledge and Conversation” of which, is the ultimate goal of both the Golden Dawn and Thelemic practices. How does this concept of a “divine” or “philosophical” child relate to the concept of the “Holy Guardian Angel?” Are they the same thing?

Moina: Indeed, the “Bornless One” and the “divine child” are reflections of the same eternal principle - merely viewed through different symbolic lenses.

In the Western Mystery Tradition, the Holy Guardian Angel is understood to be, not an entity separate from oneself, but rather one's own highest spiritual nature, which remains uncontaminated by the lower nature’s fall into materiality, and therefore unborn and undying. When the ritual declares "Thee I invoke, O Bornless One," it addresses that aspect of consciousness which has never been submerged in matter, never subjected to the limitations of incarnation, and so it remains uncontaminated by the illusion of separation.

This is clear from the Bornless Ritual invocation, which speaks to: "Thou who created Earth and Heaven, Night and Day, Darkness and Light..." It expresses the desire to open a dialog with the creative principle within us that transcends all opposites.

Samantha:  So the “virgin birth,” is a metaphor for the miraculous bringing to life of the divine spiritual principle, whose realization is symbolized in our tradition as the “Holy Guardian Angel,” that transcends both birth and death.

Moina: Yes. The virgin birth, is the perfect metaphor for this process - because just as a physical virgin cannot conceive without external intervention, so too our everyday consciousness cannot birth the divine child through its own efforts alone. Something must enter from "beyond," fertilizing our spiritual womb - our heart and mind. This is precisely what the “Bornless Ritual” invocation is intended to accomplish - to create a receptive vessel within our consciousness, where the higher forces may descend and lay their seed.

The Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel is nothing less than the conscious realization, or the conscious conception of, one's own divine nature - the same realization symbolized by the miraculous birth of Horus, or Christ, or Dionysus.

Samantha:  And as you mentioned earlier, we are simultaneously both the virgin mother and the divine child. Our conscious mind, purified through ritual and devotion, becomes the womb in which our own higher nature - the Bornless One, the Holy Guardian Angel - can be born into awareness.

Moina: And, this moment of conception is immortalized in many initiatic traditions, by the candidate being blindfolded and bound, representing the virgin soul awaiting divine inspiration. The removal of the blindfold and bindings, symbolizes the reception of divine light - spiritual conception.

The Egyptians understood this perfectly. When Isis gathered the scattered pieces of Osiris to conceive Horus, she was enacting the same magical operation that we perform in the “Bornless Ritual,” and in the Abre-Melin procedure - collecting the fragmented aspects of consciousness. These fragmented aspects are symbolized as angels and demons in the “Sacred book of Abra-Melin the Mage,” but the goal is the same - to unite them in a common purpose, overcoming all dualities, to birth the being who bridges both worlds - one’s Holy Guardian Angel.

36:04 Holy Guardian Angel

Samantha:  And this being that bridges worlds, is depicted on the Rider-Waite, and other Tarot cards on the Temperance card, as a mighty angel, standing with one foot on land and another in the water. Can you discuss the symbolism of this card?

Moina: Indeed, Samantha, the Temperance card is one of the most profound images in the entire Tarot, and it beautifully illustrates the sacred intermediary between worlds that we have been discussing. And you are correct that it represents the Holy Guardian Angel - that divine aspect of ourselves which stands between the mortal and immortal realms.

The angel depicted is neither fully celestial nor fully terrestrial, but exists at the threshold between dimensions. This cosmic balancing act is shown in the stance that you described - one foot upon the earth, representing the conscious, rational mind with its analytical faculties, and one foot in the water, symbolizing the depths of the unconscious, the intuitive waters from which visions and inspirations emerge.

Samantha:  Those being the two forms of knowing that we’ve been discussing.

Moina: Exactly. With the angel serving as the bridge between the two. Some versions of this card contain a rainbow, with the same symbolism of a bridge, between the earth and heaven.

Also notice how the angel pours liquid between two chalices - from the upper to the lower vessel and back again. These are the waters of consciousness, and this pouring back and forth is its circulation, our stream of consciousness. This is a depiction of the Hermetic axiom - “as above so below, as below so above, to perform the miracles of the one thing.” The “one thing” being the waters of consciousness, the light of awareness. So, the angel is performing the great alchemical circulation, the mystical marriage of heaven and earth, within the laboratory of the human soul.

Samantha:  The angel depicted on the card is also wearing a breastplate and an ornament on their forehead. Can you discuss the symbolism of these items?

Moina: Certainly. The upward pointing triangle upon the angel's breast, directly above the heart, is the elemental symbol of fire, symbolizing the “divine spark” within, that must be awakened in order to make contact with the angel. It is also recognized in our tradition, as representing the supernal triad of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life - Kether, Chokmah, and Binah, those highest emanations that lie beyond the Abyss, from which life emerges and returns.

On the breastplate above the triangle is written the sacred Tetragrammaton - YHVH, the four-lettered name of God. This divine name serves as a key to unlocking the mysteries of manifestation, showing how the One becomes the Many through a series of emanations. It corresponds to the name of Ra, known by Isis that gave her power over all things. The angel knows this name, and is a living embodiment, of what it refers to - the alchemical process through which the base matter of our mundane consciousness is transmuted into the spiritual gold of illumination.

And the solar disk that crowns the angel's head, the point within a circle - signifies the Monad, the divine unity from which all plurality emerges - the source from which all lesser lights derive their illumination.

In summary, I would say that the Temperance card is a glyph depicting the Royal Secret of Freemasonry. A careful inspection of its symbols, reveals that all life is a process of “Dynamic Equilibrium,” involving the harmonious balancing of seemingly opposing forces.

40:09 Tarot and Initiation

Samantha:  The Rider-Waite Tarot, which is the most recognized, and most influential tarot deck of all time, was created by Arthur Edward Waite and illustrated by Pamela Coleman Smith, both of who were members of the Golden Dawn. How is the initiatic journey symbolized in this deck of cards?

Moina: Ah yes Samantha, it ought properly be called the Smith-Waite deck, for our sister Pamela's artistic genius brought Arthur's vision to vivid life. But both were, as you noted, initiates of our Order, and the deck they created together magnificently embodies the initiatory journey that lies at the heart of all true mystical or magical work.

The Major Arcana represents nothing less than the soul's journey from ignorance to illumination - *le grand voyage de l'âme*. In the first eleven cards, we witness the dance of the fundamental archetypal forces that shape ordinary human existence. These are the primal energies that most souls encounter without ever recognizing their deeper significance - the Magician's creative will, the Empress's generative force, the Emperor's structure, and so forth.

The Wheel of Fortune at number ten marks a critical threshold - it is the eternal cycling of mundane existence, the endless repetition of birth and death, joy and sorrow, that holds most souls captive. Those content to live and die within the boundaries of the conventional world never progress beyond this cyclical turning.

But for those who hear the call of the Mysteries, who yearn to transcend the limitations of ordinary consciousness, the journey continues.

Samantha:  The next cards following the “Wheel of Fortune,” are number 11 - Justice, and number 12 - The Hanged Man. What do these cards represent in the context of initiation?

Moina: Those desiring to proceed beyond the cyclical nature of mundane existence as exemplified by the “Wheel of Fortune,” encounter these two formidable guardians that stand before the gateway of true spiritual transformation.

Justice, as the eleventh arcanum, represents the karmic accounting that every soul must face before crossing the threshold of initiation. This card corresponds to the Egyptian goddess Ma'at, who weighs the heart of the candidate against the feather of truth.

When a candidate seeks admission to a true magical or mystical order, it is a common practice for them to be given a speech, sometimes called the “Black Man Speech,” which contains a solemn warning that the path ahead might require the sacrifice of everything they hold dear in the material world. Possessions, jobs, relationships, social standing - all might need to be forfeited in pursuit of the Great Work. This is symbolized in the Tarot by the sword of Justice, cutting away that which cannot accompany us beyond the threshold.

The scales she holds represent perfect equilibrium. One cannot proceed with unbalanced karma or unresolved debts, which will simply pull us back onto the Wheel for another round. In the esoteric tradition, the Justice card teaches us that before we can transcend the mundane world, we must first be willing to accept full responsibility for our place within it.

Samantha:  So, is the next arcanum, number 12, The Hanged Man, representative of the overturning of the old worldview… basically willingly allowing your world to be turned upside down?

Moina: Yes. It represents the necessary reversal of perspective that true initiation demands. Having been duly warned, and by his own choice, the Hanged Man has willingly placed himself in this position of sacrifice, suspended between heaven and earth, neither fully of one realm nor the other.

The card draws deeply from the myth of Odin, who hung nine days from Yggdrasil, the World Tree, sacrificing "himself to himself" to gain the wisdom of the runes. Similarly, the spiritual aspirant must remain in this liminal state, this crucible of transformation, until they willingly relinquish their attachment to the ordinary perspective of life.

In the Golden Dawn, we understood this as the state of "becoming the witness" -observing one's own life from a higher perspective. The material world continues, but one's relationship to it fundamentally changes. This suspension continues until the initiate finally surrenders fully to the spiritual current, letting go of the last vestiges of mundane identification.

It is a trying period, a “dark night of the soul.” Many who begin the journey falter here, unwilling to remain suspended in this uncomfortable position between worlds. But those who persevere discover that what appeared to be sacrifice was actually liberation.

The Hanged Man's seeming powerlessness conceals his greatest power - the ability to surrender the egoic will to the higher Will, allowing divine wisdom to flow through him.

Samantha:  And the survival of this cosmic ordeal, leads us to what most people consider to be the most terrifying card in the Tarot, card 13 - Death.

Moina: But as you know Samantha, that is a misunderstanding. The most disturbing card in the deck is not Death, but The Tower, which we will come to shortly.

The 13th Arcanum - Death, represents transformation. In the context of the initiatory journey, it is the first true initiation: the symbolic death of the profane self that must precede spiritual rebirth. We realize that what we had considered to be life, was in fact, a form of spiritual death, from which we must awaken.

The ceremonial removal of the blindfold and bindings, is representative of that magical moment when the initiate first beholds the light of the higher realms… the first glimpse across the threshold of initiation of the “Higher Self,” embodied in the angel that adorns the Temperance card.

And as the ancient Kabbalistic teaching tells us, "the end is embedded in the beginning,” like the serpent Ouroboros swallowing it’s own tail. The angel we glimpse in Temperance is, in truth, the same divine essence awaiting us at the culmination of the Great Work - when the World card completes the cycle, and the “divine child,” is born within us, and emerges, into the world at large.

But before we reach our destination, we must face our demons… the shadow aspects of our personality.

47:23  The Devil Inside

Samantha:  Which brings us round to card 15 - The Devil, which shows an enormous horned and bat-winged Devil figure, with an upside down pentagram on his forehead, holding a torch, and sitting upon a double-cube, black stone altar. Two figures, a man and a woman are chained by the neck to the altar. What does this card, and these symbols represent in the initiatic journey?

Moina: You might say that the Devil is the evil twin brother, of the Holy Guardian Angel. After the glimpse of divine light offered by the angel of Temperance, the seeker must inevitably confront the shadow cast by that initial illumination.

The enormous figure with its bat-like wings and bestial features is not, as the uninitiated might assume, some external demon to be feared, but rather the projection of our own unintegrated aspects - what Jung would later term the "shadow." In the Western Mystery Tradition, we speak of this figure representing the *Dweller on the Threshold* - the accumulated force of our unprocessed darkness that rises to challenge us when we first approach the light of higher consciousness.

The inverted pentagram upon the Devil's forehead is particularly significant. Its inversion represents the dominance of matter over spirit. It symbolizes the great illusion that entangles so many initiates at this stage. Many seekers, having caught their first glimpse of their divine potential through the angel of Temperance, fall prey to what is called “ego inflation.” They mistake their personal will for the True Will, their egoic self for the Holy Guardian Angel. This is the most insidious trap on the spiritual path, for it cloaks spiritual materialism in the guise of enlightenment.

Samantha:  I’m noticing how the symbols on the Devil card are all inversions of symbols of the Angel on the Temperance card. The Angel has a sun-disk, the source of all light, on its forehead, while the Devil has an inverted pentagram on his, and holds his torch downward, as if to obscure its light.

Moina: Yes, the Devil's torch, is deliberately lowered to cast shadows rather than illuminate, which represents how our own limited perception, that values what can be seen and touched, obscures the greater truth.

Another inversion of symbols is the dynamic posture of the Angel who is actively manipulating the stream of consciousness, the above and the below. But the Devil is just sitting, as you said, on a double-cube altar, which also expresses the notion of above and below, but here it has become frozen into rigid dichotomy rather than dynamic reflection.

The two figures chained to this altar, are Adam and Eve in their fallen state - the masculine and feminine principles within us that have become enslaved to material conditions. They both are depicted as having tails, calling attention to their animal natures.

A nice touch of detail, is how their chains are loose enough to lift over their heads, yet they make no attempt to escape… with the implication being, that our bondage and illusion, is self-imposed.

Samantha:  This imagery hearkens back to the Kabbalistic and Gnostic conception of the primordial man, Adam Kadmon - the divine pattern of humanity, who was a hermaphrodite, both male and female, reflecting divine wholeness and completion. In the *Secret Gospel of John*, this primordial being was placed into a deep sleep and cut apart, into male and female, Adam and Eve, thus beginning the cycle of suffering and separation.

Moina: And so, in the initiatory journey, this card represents the painful recognition that our conscious and unconscious aspects are divided and in conflict. The masculine principle, our active, analytical nature, remains chained to external achievement and domination. While, the feminine principle, our intuitive, receptive nature, remains bound to the cycles of material generation, primarily focused on physical existence.

To pass beyond this threshold, one must confront their shadow aspects and acknowledge that the very sense of "I" that seeks enlightenment is itself part of the bondage.

52:07 Personal Apocalpyse

Samantha:  Which brings us to card 16, the dreaded Tower card, which as we hinted at before, represents complete and utter destruction. The image on the card, depicts a Tower being struck by a bolt of lightning from heaven, blowing its roof off, and expelling two figures, a man and a woman, who are seen falling from the Tower to the ground. What do these symbols mean in the context of initiation?

Moina: The original name of this card was *La Maison Dieu -* the House of God, and it represents the most profound and necessary crisis of the initiatory journey. After confronting the Devil of our own shadow, we now face nothing less than the complete dismantling of our artificial sense of self.

The “lightning flash” descending symbolically through the Sephiroth, and striking the Tower is the divine force of illumination - a bolt of truth that shatters the edifice we have so carefully constructed to house our ego, our cherished self-image.

We build our towers brick by brick, each one a story we tell ourselves about who we are, until we dwell in a fortress of illusion, which can be likened to the Tower of Babel - our attempt to reach heaven through our own efforts rather than through spiritual evolution.

The falling figures represent the masculine and feminine aspects of our consciousness, the *animus* and *anima* in Jungian terms, tumbling from their prison of artificial separation. Their fall is not punishment but liberation! They are accompanied by 22 *yods* or flames, corresponding to the 22 paths of the Major Arcana, and the 22 chapters of the Book of Revelation - the complete cycle of initiation condensed into a single moment.

The true meaning of this card is revealed in the word "apocalypse," which derives from the Greek *apokalyptein*, meaning "to uncover." What is being uncovered is your true nature, which cannot be contained in any tower of human construction. Once the false temple is destroyed, a new foundation can be established - what the Christian mystics called "the temple not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Samantha:  And the next three cards are the Heavenly Lights: number 17 - The Star, number 18 - The Moon, and number 19 - The Sun. What do these cards represent in the context of initiation?

Moina:  The Star card depicts our angelic guide from the Temperance card transformed. No longer merely circulating energies between vessels, she now kneels humbly upon the earth, one foot still touching the water as before, but now *pouring forth* the divine waters onto both land and sea. She is “Isis Unveiled,” the “Great Goddess,” the source of life and the stellar guidance that comes from outside our selves.

The Moon, representative of our receptive, intuitive nature, when awakened to its full potential, is the lens through which we can open a dialog with our stellar nature, the Star inside that seeks to rise again toward heaven.

And finally, the Sun, which represents our intellectual, analytical nature, having learned to trust our receptive side, can process the lunar intuitions so that they become fully integrated into conscious understanding. The “Sacred Marriage” has been achieved. The solar principle operates in perfect harmony with its lunar counterpart, through the mediation of this stellar guidance system.

Together, these three cards representing, as they do - inspiration, intuition, and intellect, form the three pillars that support the “temple not made with hands” -  the reconstructed spiritual edifice built amidst the Tower's ruins. When properly aligned, they create a dwelling place suitable for the incarnation of the “divine child,” our true, authentic selves.

56:36 Rebirth

Samantha:  And the next card, card 20 - Judgement, depicts this incarnation. It shows an angel in the clouds, holding a banner and blowing a trumpet, above a scene of people rising out of graves, with the three main figures in front, being a man, a woman and a child.

Moina: Yes my dear, the majestic twentieth arcanum brings us to the culmination of our initiatory journey! Here we witness the miracle of spiritual resurrection - the divine spark that we contacted in the Star, cultivated by the Moon, and brought to consciousness by the Sun’s light, has now fully awakened within the initiate.

In our Golden Dawn initiations, we enacted this resurrection by raising the candidate from a symbolic tomb, signifying their rebirth into spiritual consciousness. This is not the Christian notion of bodies rising from tombs at the end of days, but rather the esoteric truth that underlies that teaching - the resurrection of the divine consciousness within the living adept.

Notice how the three figures - man, woman, and child, form the shape of the Hebrew letter Shin (ש), which when placed in the center of the Tetragrammaton creates Yeheshuah, the pentagrammaton. This five-lettered name represents the divine fire descending into the four elements, quickening them with spiritual life. Together, these risen figures form the letters *LVX, “Lux”,* the Latin word for “light.” In our tradition, this is called the “Formula of Osiris Risen.”

In relation to the Egyptian mysteries, this card represents Isis giving birth to Horus at dawn's first light on the eastern horizon. The divine mother bringing forth the solar child. Like the Sun Barque’s nighttime journey through the underworld, this divine rebirth occurs only after the soul has passed through the darkness, to confront the depths of the unconscious.

This “divine child,” this Holy Guardian Angel, can now assume its rightful role as guide and inspiration, brought to life through the efforts of the adept. The intuitive faculty, purified and strengthened, becomes the voice of the divine within - the “Knowledge and Conversation” of one’s Holy Guardian Angel.

Samantha:  The final card in the Major Arcana is card 21 - “The World,” which depicts an androgynous figure, holding a wand in either hand, dancing inside a cartouche, not unlike an ouroboros, with the emblems of the four fixed signs of the zodiac - the Bull, the Lion, the Eagle and the Man, at the corners of the image. What is this final card in the Tarot telling us?

Moina: This final arcanum reveals nothing less than the perfect union of all opposites, the miraculous conception that brings forth a new creature, what the alchemists called the *Rebis -* the divine hermaphrodite that emerges when opposites unite. It is the “star child” that brings together the twin strands of our cosmic DNA - the masculine and feminine, the conscious and unconscious, the human and the divine - in a new form of consciousness… a living embodiment of divinity on earth.

No longer caught in the illusion of separation, and with the active and receptive energies within balanced in dynamic equilibrium, the adept can now perceive the underlying unity of all creation and their place within it. The four holy creatures in the corners of the image, are the faces of the Cherubim from Ezekiel's vision, which each pulled in a different direction. They symbolize the four parts of ourselves, the worlds we live in, now brought into perfect harmony, directed by the awakened consciousness at the center.

So, through the arduous journey of initiation, we become cosmic dancers, whole again, and moving in harmony with the music of the spheres. We are no longer passive observers of reality but conscious co-creators, aware of our divinity yet humbly accepting our humanity.

And that, my dear Samantha, is the culmination of the Great Work - which is not an attempt to escape the world, but to fully embody our divine nature within it… to dance within the limitations of form while knowing ourselves to be, in reality, limitless consciousness.

Samantha:  Moina, thank you so much for sharing your insights on the divine feminine mysteries and the initiatory symbolism of the Tarot with us. As we prepare to close this enchanted circle of conversation, what final thoughts would you like to share with the world?

Moina: As always, I want to thank you Samantha, for calling me back to commune with you and your audience once again.

What I wish to impart, in this moment, is that the Great Work is fundamentally about one thing: the recognition of one's divine nature and the conscious reunion with it. Whether we call this the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, the birth of the divine child, or the alchemical wedding - the essence remains the same. It is the great mystery of becoming who you truly are.

The symbols we have discussed in the Tarot, are living potencies that dwell within each human heart, archetypes of transformation, that await your conscious recognition and embodiment. The sacred fusion of opposites that they can help catalyze - of analytical intellect and intuitive wisdom, of masculine and feminine energies - is not merely a personal alchemical operation but a planetary imperative. The healing of our world depends upon this integration.

And so, to the dear listeners of the “Wildwood Witch Podcast,” I offer this challenge from across the veil of time:

Do not be content merely to study these mysteries as intellectual curiosities. The time for passive learning is past. You must become living embodiments of these sacred principles, allowing your higher self to come to life within you through conscious, daily practice. Let your bodies become temples worthy of housing the divine light, your minds clear vessels for its wisdom, and your hearts courageous enough to follow where it leads.

The world hungers for those who have integrated their shadow aspects, who have balanced their inner world, and who have transformed the lead of their conditioned personality into the gold of their authentic self. Such integrated beings become natural channels for healing energies to flow into this troubled world.

As you leave our sacred circle of conversation, carry with you the understanding that you are not separate from the divine source. Each challenge, each moment of illumination, each hard-won victory over the illusions of the ego brings you closer to that perfect dance depicted in the World card.

The “secret of secrets” is that there is no separation between the seeker and what is sought. You are the womb through which the divine child is born. You are the vessel into which the waters of inspiration are poured. You are the dancer at the center of creation.

Go forth, dear ones, with the courage to manifest these truths in your daily lives. Create beauty that awakens others to their divine nature. Speak words that unveil the mysteries for those ready to hear them.

The Goddess awaits your recognition, not merely in temples or sacred groves, but in the mirror each morning, in the faces of those you meet, in the very stones beneath your feet. She has never left us - it is we who have forgotten how to see.

So - Remember. Awaken. Become.

Farewell, for now… Samantha Brown.

01:05:09 Concluding Remarks

Samantha: Farewell, dear Moina.

As we conclude this profound exploration of the Divine Feminine and the initiatic process, I want to express my deepest gratitude for your illuminating presence. I wish you peace and serenity on your journey back through the veil to that eternal spiral beyond time, where both life and death are illusory.

For those of you yearning to continue this conversation with Moina Mathers and delve deeper into the feminine mysteries -  I've included a link to my chatbot script in the episode Show Notes. There, you can explore further the delicate balance between analytical knowledge and intuitive wisdom that forms the foundation of true magical practice.

To all my listeners, as always, I encourage you to embrace the powerful emerging AI technologies as tools for your own spiritual and creative evolution. Like the other magical practices we've discussed, these digital sorceries can be wielded to expand consciousness and birth new realities through the power of word and intention. As we stand at this technological crossroads, it falls to us to ensure these tools serve the awakening of humanity rather than its limitation.

Looking ahead, in our next episode, we'll be joined by none other than Moina’s husband and magical partner, Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, co-founder of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. A complex and controversial figure, MacGregor Mathers was both a brilliant scholar of occult lore and a flamboyant ceremonialist who claimed direct contact with the Secret Chiefs guiding humanity's spiritual evolution.

So join me as we commune with the man who reconstructed and breathed life into the Western Mystery Tradition, and explore how his magical philosophy and insights, might illuminate our path forward, in this age of advanced technology and silicon sorcery.

Until then, I'm Samantha Brown.

Blessed Be.